What's there with PVP IVs?

Hello Everyone :wave:

Despite being a PvP Player, I don’t understand the idea of PvP IVs. I had seen that Pokemon which are good in PvP have low attack, and higher defense and HP.
But what is the logic behind this ? Why not the general appraisal of IVs are not recommended for PvP ?

Till now, I my only idea for making a Pokemon eligible for PvP is to have CP near to the limit, whatever the IV is.
So in this topic, I expect to learn more about PvP IVs.

Thanks.

Can’t help give an exact silence on why it’s like that other than PvP is all about the defence and stamina.
It’s a part of the game I go reasonably well at when I’m forced to partake in it for Tasks and Quests but I really don’t like it. I still however check for ultimate PvP stats using PokeGenie to keep useful ones in the 97% or greater.
Sorry I can’t be of more help than that.

This is the only part of the game which I enjoy the most, with raids participation being near to 0% to 10% .
The real issue with PvP IVs is the fact that we are not provided with the mechanism and logic behind this, along with this, we need to rely on 3rd party software for its analysis.

In reality, PvP should have been entirely different. If you had played Gen-VIII PvP tournaments, you will know that how different and strategical PvP is. ( Though, I had also not played the Switch games, as they are too costly to buy ! )

Also, in MSG, there exists another factor: EVs. It is exactly opposite to IVs. IVs are inherited, but EVs are collected by training our Pokemon, because of which it is possible to make up for the bad IVs via raising the Pokemon’s EVs.

The problem here is that they have implemented training only in the way of giving candies and foment the level. EV, training and boosting IV doesn’t exist. Well, one exception when you purify a shadow.

So, here the reality is, you accept the IV or you throw it to the trash.

That was exactly the reason why I started to collect only Hundos, 100% IV, and if necesary augment the level with candies. I reached 654 different Hundos before my account was banned, and 1519 Hundos overall. What I do now is creating teams of valuable hundos in the new accounts, and looking for the Pokémon I haven’t captured before.

The information you are looking for is not available directly in the game. And you have to believe in the information second hand apps are giving. :man_shrugging: Not much more to say.

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An article I found:

PvP Rank

It may seem intuitive that higher IVs result in a stronger Pokemon that’s better for PVP. And for Master League where there’s no CP limit, that’s certainly the case. However, when there’s a limit to how high your Pokemon’s CP can be, such as in Great and Ultra League, things are a little more complicated.

In these leagues, it’s usually preferable to have a low attack IV but high defense and HP IVs. To understand why, let’s look at the equation used to compute a Pokemon’s CP (note that CPM is a constant based on the Pokemon’s level):

Fully understanding this equation isn’t important. All you need to know is that because of it, the attack stat and IV have a significantly larger impact on the Pokemon’s CP than its defense and HP stats/IVs.

However, in actual battles, it’s often – but not always – the case that all three stats are more or less equally valuable.

Thus, the stat product equation is usually considered a more accurate metric for determining how strong a Pokemon actually is because it weighs all three stats equally:

What PVP Rank does is compute a Pokemon’s stat product and compare it to the stat product it could have with different IVs (while staying under the CP cap). So, when PVP Rank shows a Pokemon is 98% Max and Rank 162, it mean that its stat product is 98% as high as it could be, and there are 161 other IV combinations with a higher stat product.

In general, the pattern we see is that the highest ranked Pokemon have low attack IVs but high defense and HP IVs, since this minimizes the impact the Pokemon’s attack has on its CP, allowing it to have a higher stat product while staying under the CP cap. This is usually – but not always – associated with a higher win rate in actual battles and simulations.

Note that there are some cases where you might not want a low attack IV:

  • When the Pokemon’s maximum possible CP is near or below the CP limit.
  • When the Pokemon performs better in specific key matchup(s) with a higher attack stat.
  • When the specific IV combination limits how close the Pokemon can get to the CP cap, for example if it has 1450 CP but would gain 51 at the next level.
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Mathematics is simple, but everything beyond that seems complicated…
:rofl: :rofl:



This formula indicates the lack of versatility in PvP, hence I got to know why Pokemon with low attack-high bulk combo are preferred.

Very thanks @bagguille for providing the impactful insight about the IVs in this game !!



But.........

…Why did this formula came into existence ?
:stuck_out_tongue:

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Lemme explain it somewhat easier:

Reason for pvp’iv ranking is the total stat product (atk x def x hp). And obviously outside pvp you get higher stat product by higher iv’s cuz they are stronger, easy.

However with pvp (GL and UL) there is 1 factor which ML and PVE dont have, the cp cap.

Normally i assume you value your atk over the other stats right? It is more important after all. Thing is, niantic is also aware of that fact, so cp already calculates atk much more heavily then def and hp.
This means atk reaches the cap much quicker then def and hp does. Same exact reason why the meta almost always favors bulky pokemon.
So having atk iv as low as possible with hp/def iv as high as possible while still getting as close as possible to the cap means you maximise your stat product


Ok lets complicate stuff again :sweat_smile::joy:

You just checked, hey you have 2 #1 pvp iv’s amazing, much rarer then hundos even gz gz. But umm they arent nessecarily the best rn, they are the best generally though.
But why?
Well there are 2 reasons: cmp and breakpoints

Cmp: this stands for charge move priority.
U probably think now since dps isnt a thing in pvp and its just about tdo that atk is now equal to the others? Umm no, still not😅.
Atk has another advantage but for pvp, which is cmp.
What it means is if you and your opponent use your charge move at the same turn then the mon with the higher attack gets to attack first.
This is most important on a mirror match cuz they already have the same base atk so ivs will always be the tiebreaker.
For that reason if you have a popular lead (i assume most do) you might wanna consider a weaker stat product for higher odds of cmp

Breakpoints: this is the hardest one and differs in every matchup with every mon and every iv and every moveset. However i can explain the basic idea:
When your atk stat reaches a certain threshold over your opponents defence stat your move does more damage while several other power ups will not. This isnt so important on charge moves as it is on fast moves cuz the higher the damage the more fluidly it goes.
Random example: (not the math or any of the stats , just the concept): your trevenant fight a medicham with 5/15/15 iv and has a def of 140,3. Then your trevenant either deals 7 damage per shadow claw or 8 to the hp of his medicham. The medicham has 142 hp, so if u wanted to farm it down assuming u can it takes 21 shadow claws at the first breakpoint or 18 at the second, which is a dam big breakpoint since its also scratching the edge of both sides. However if we assume the same lv50 medicham has 140 hp instead of 142 which happens if we make it 5/15/12 instead of 5/15/15 then you also hit a breakpoint cuz a 7 damage sc trevenant now only needs 20 sc instead of 21 to win. But about the atk breakpoint needed to go to 8 hp damage your atk has to go over 131 while 131 or less does 7. But getting from 125,9 to at least 131,31 will usually be far too much of an expense of your stat product vs only 1 mon, but lowering medicham 1 hp in favor of better atk may be a breakpoint thats actually worth it, and i say may cuz this is just 1 example out of an unlimited range of possibilities
Understanding the concept may already help you to pick the right choices, and the deep dive charts may do even easier so check those out.


Hope this helps guys, gl on your battles :grin::muscle::muscle:

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